Daniel Date argues:

You asked about the Pope and Mary. I’ll start with the Pope.

John 21:16 Rule [Poimaino] my sheep.

How do we know it says Rule?

Revelation 2:27 that one ‘will rule [Poimaino] them

Same author says “Rule”, English translators mess it up; go figure.

Find the OT shadow: Isaiah 19:22 (LXX) And I will give him the glory of David; and he shall rule, and there shall be none to speak against him: and I will give him the key of the house of David upon his shoulder; and he shall open, and there shall be none to shut; and he shall shut, and there shall be none to open

Here we find the OT Peter “Ruling” as Prime Minister of the House of David  and being given the “Keys”, in a parallel fashion to Matthew 16:19 as well; yet another typology shadow fulfillment. Now we have the scriptural basis for the Papacy aka Prime Minister.

I reply:

The ruling is done by Christ. As for the keys being given to Peter, see Tertullian on that. He says plainly that when Peter preached “repent and be baptized every one of you…” (Acts 2:38) he turned the keys, and thereby bound the sins of those who would not be baptized and loosed those of those who would. And I didn’t ask anything about the pope or Mary.

And as for the lame argument on John 21:16, you clearly didn’t bother to look in the Clementine Vulgate!!!!!!!

I should throw some extras !!!!!! in there for that one!!!!!!! The Clementine Vulgate (declared infallible by Trent) uses the word “Pasce” in John 21:15,16,and 17 all three.

15 Cum ergo prandissent, dicit Simoni Petro Jesus : Simon Joannis, diligis me plus his ? Dicit ei : Etiam Domine, tu scis quia amo te. Dicit ei : Pasce agnos meos. 16 Dicit ei iterum : Simon Joannis, diligis me ? Ait illi : Etiam Domine, tu scis quia amo te. Dicit ei : Pasce agnos meos. 17 Dicit ei tertio : Simon Joannis, amas me ? Contristatus est Petrus, quia dixit ei tertio : Amas me ? et dixit ei : Domine, tu omnia nosti, tu scis quia amo te. Dixit ei : Pasce oves meas.

Booyah!

Like I already said, the Clementine Vulgate (infallible per Trent) uses “Pasce” in all 3 verses (John 21:15-17). It is undoubtedly the influence of the Vulgate that made the KJV use “feed” all three times. And this is confirmed by the fact that the Douay translation (as Catholic as it gets in English) which was made from the Vulgate ALSO uses “feed” all three times. So whatever tricks are being played with the Greek, on this verse I’ll consider the Greek (as the Complutension Polyglott said about it) like one of the thieves on the cross and the Latin as Jesus himself.

Your Isaiah reference is the wrong verse, by the way, as Isaiah 19:22 in the Septuagint says “And the Lord shall smite the Egyptians with a stroke, and shall completely heal them: and they shall return to the Lord, and he shall hear them, and thoroughly heal them.” (Brenton’s translation)

You meant Isaiah 22:22.

KJV from the Hebrew “And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.”

Douay from the Latin “And I will lay the key of the house of David upon his shoulder: and he shall open, and none shall shut: and he shall shut, and none shall open.”

Brenton from the Greek “And I will give him the glory of David; and he shall rule, and there shall be none to speak against him: and I will give him the key of the house of David upon his shoulder; and he shall open, and there shall be none to shut; and he shall shut, and there shall be none to open.”

Once again the Douay kicks your butt!!!!!! The word “rule” is yet again, not there in the Vulgate:

Et dabo clavem domus David
super humerum ejus ;
et aperiet, et non erit qui claudat ;
et claudet, et non erit qui aperiat.

Booyah! times 2.

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